Friday, February 26, 2010

GOP Lies at the Health Care Summit

As usual... but it is telling that all of this negotiating with the minority party is not always worth the effort -- especially when they aren't interested in negotiating.

GOP Lies at the Health Care Summit
That’s a divide that can’t be bridged. Because the Republicans continue to just lie, whether it’s about process (see reconciliation) or the CBO reports on the existing plan. Ezra:

Lamar Alexander and Barack Obama just had a contentious exchange on this point, so it’s worth settling the issue: Yes, the CBO found health-care reform would reduce premiums. The issue gets confused because it also found that access to subsidies would encourage people to buy more comprehensive insurance, which would mean that the value of their insurance would be higher after reform than before it. But that’s not the same as insurance becoming more expensive: The fact that I could buy a nicer car after getting a better job suggests that cars are becoming pricier. The bottom line is that if you’re comparing two plans that are exactly the same, costs go down after reform.



Too bad, eh? Good for Canada, where more Americans are now heading for cheaper health care coverage.

hiho
Mp

20 comments:

DanBack said...

From a thread below that is about to drop off the main page:

Kevin "I'm not defending the crazy Bush spending either, but that crazyness even looks frugal and responsible next to Obama."

That talk of debt brought to mind this post:
http://sleeplessinwestbend.blogspot.com/2009/04/kevin-scheunemann-kewaskum-trustee-is.html

Which lead me here:
http://wcca.wicourts.gov/pager.do;jsessionid=A697A00EECD77F73511B415F0747760F.render6?cacheId=40F55411F5DA68D28DDC9020E7950983&offset=0&sortColumn=1&sortDirection=DESC

So I'm sure you will forgive me Kevin, if I seek my economic advice elsewhere. For a fiscal conservative you appear to be pretty bad at it.

Kevin Scheunemann said...

Dan,

Wow. Going for the jugular like that. I must have really got you excited.

Actually, I'm very impressed by you, going for the political hardball like that. You should manage political campaigns, for Democrats!

If you actually had all the facts, I think you would be impressed at just how fiscally conservative I am, personally.

So do these so-called "facts" diminish my ability to criticize the spending of George Bush and Obama?

Thanks, in advance, for the clarification.

DanBack said...

If linking to another blog post about you is "going for the jugular" then so be it I guess.

Mpeterson said...

Holy smokes, Kevin.

Kevin Scheunemann said...

Dan,

I just enjoy how instead of it being about the issue of crazy government spending, it becomes about me.

Am I really that fascinating?

So I'm not allowed to criticize the out of control federal and state spending of Obama and Doyle?

James Dionne said...

Just effin' great, now I can't even enjoy Dairy Queen. Thanks, Dan. BTW, Dan Your personal google dirt search on Kevin is very weird, almost obsessive. Borderline schizophrenic?

Anonymous said...

How about these "lies"?

http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2010/02/mr-president-we-are-still-waiting-for.html:

It is interesting that in the 24 hours since the end of the health summit, the President's ample response squad has not come up with responses to the Ryan's pointed charges including:


•"This bill does not control costs (or) reduce deficits. Instead, (it) adds a new health care entitlement when we have no idea how to pay for the entitlements we already have."
•"The bill has 10 years of tax increases, about half a trillion dollars, with 10 years of Medicare cuts, about half a trillion dollars, to pay for six years of spending. The true 10-year cost (is) $2.3 trillion."
•"The bill takes $52 billion in higher Social Security tax revenues and counts them as offsets. But that's really reserved for Social Security. So either we're double-counting them or we don't intend on paying those Social Security benefits."
•"The bill takes $72 billion from the CLASS Act (long-term care insurance) benefit premiums and claims them as offsets."
•"The bill treats Medicare like a piggy bank, (raiding) half a trillion dollars not to shore up Medicare solvency, but to spend on this new government program."
•"The chief actuary of Medicare (says) as much as 20% of Medicare providers will either go out of business or have to stop seeing Medicare beneficiaries."
•"Millions of seniors who have chosen Medicare Advantage (Medicare through a private insurer) will lose the coverage that they now enjoy."
•"When you strip out the double-counting and ... gimmicks, the full 10-year cost of the bill has a $460 billion deficit. The second 10-year cost of this bill has a $1.4 trillion deficit."
•"The 'doc fix' (restoring cuts in Medicare reimbursements) costs $371 billion ... a price tag (that) made the score look bad. (So) that provision was taken out, and (put) in stand-alone legislation. But ignoring these costs does not remove them from the backs of taxpayers. Hiding spending does not reduce spending."
•"Are we bending the cost curve down or are we bending the cost curve up? If you look at your own chief actuary at Medicare, we're bending it up. He's claiming that we're going up $222 billion, adding more to the unsustainable fiscal situation we have."
If the President's political "war room" had an answer to Ryan's points they would have been splattered all over the mainstream media in time for this morning's news programs. But the truth is they have no answer. Paul Ryan was armed with truth, the Obamacare bill is going to break the federal treasury and no political war room can fight that.

Mpeterson said...

Then we have an even bigger problem than the Democrats and Republicans -- it means the CBO is lying to Congress and the American people as well.

Mpeterson said...

Whoops, better yet, here's *my* Nobel Prize winning economist.. you get yours and we'll see how they square off:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/26/opinion/26krugman.html?th&emc=th

His take is:

"Don’t take my word for it. Look at the Congressional Budget Office analysis of the House G.O.P. plan. That analysis is discreetly worded, with the budget office declaring somewhat obscurely that while the number of uninsured Americans wouldn’t change much, “the pool of people without health insurance would end up being less healthy, on average, than under current law.” But here’s the translation: While some people would gain insurance, the people losing insurance would be those who need it most. Under the Republican plan, the American health care system would become even more brutal than it is now."


Oh, but right... we can't trust the CBO anymore. How convenient.

Kevin Scheunemann said...

James,

Don't be too hard on Dan.

I enjoy his "perception" on what he thinks reality is.

DanBack said...

I wouldn't take marriage advice from Tiger, nor would I take financial advice from Kevin. That's all I'm saying and it's pretty simple to understand. If I want to know how to run a fast food "restaurant" I would gladly take his advice. I'd probably take his advice on how to protect my children from gays too. If I were afraid of gay people that is.

Like I said, if posting a nearly year old link to a dead blog constitutes me "going for the jugular" and playing "political hardball" then by golly, I guess y'all can call me Karl Rove. Apparently "hardball" means something different in the soft, cuddly world of Kewaskum politics.

I had a slight debt problem 15 years ago too, but I certainly wasn't dispensing financial advice at the time. That link wasn't meant as some scathing attack (lots of Americans are in debt) and at the end of the day I'm sure Kevin is a good guy and I have faith he is a better treasurer of his church than of his personal life.

(James, before you call me schizophrenic and start thinking I spent all day trying to find that out, Kevin himself told me right here on Ginny's glorious blog: http://wissup.blogspot.com/2009/04/this-business-owner-is-not-afraid.html Google wasn't used at all:)

Have a fun weekend everyone.

Kevin Scheunemann said...

Dan,

Did you ever think there is a another logical explaination, besides assuming some sort of bad choices on my part?

But I did enjoy your version of events.

Kevin Scheunemann said...

Obama extends Patriot Act:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/02/27/obama-signs-year-extension-patriot-act/?test=latestnews

Obama still prosecuting both wars too!

Where is the "Obama lied, people died" crowd!?

These lies by Obama are real whoppers.

I would hardly call what Lamar said a "lie" vs. a point of view on health ins. premiums.

Why doesn't the Cow go after "whopper lies" like Obama?

Mpeterson said...

Wow, you got here about a year or two late.

It's great that you're investing all of this energy in calling the administration to account for its sins. So where were you during the previous administration while our tax dollars were siphoned off into the pockets of political cronies and war criminals?

Oh, that's right: making ice cream.

DanBack said...

"Did you ever think there is a another logical explaination, besides assuming some sort of bad choices on my part?"

No. Why on earth would I need to dig any deeper than seeing all those court cases listed like that? It's just like how you read a page of out of context lines from The Perks of Being a Wallflower and just KNOW that it's porn for kids and refuse to read a copy of the book.

Kevin Scheunemann said...

Dan,

Do you take issue with how the Kewaskum library has Perks located and labeled?

Aren't you excited we have our own copy?

DanBack said...

No Kevin. I have issue with people who have only read out of context lines from Perks passing judgement on it.

Just like how I shouldn't make assumptions that 2 pages worth of court cases related to your horrible financial situation means that you are unable to figure out how to balance your checkbook. Maybe someone stole your identity - I don't know.

If you require further explanation let me know and I'll go pick up a box of crayons when I'm out for lunch and try again.

DanBack said...

I'll take your silence as an admission of defeat. :)

DanBack FTW!

Kevin Scheunemann said...

Dan,

I didn't see your exact gripe against the Kewaskum locating and lableing of "perks".

So for me to say the WB Library should have similar policies to Kewaksum....that gets you excited?

What "judgment" of perks, which is available to all patrons, raises a problem for you?

So you wouldn't "judge" me if I attached a bible passage to my public official email?

DanBack said...

Holy shit Kevin, it's no wonder you are in such horrible debt.

Your inability to stay on point or answer a question is pretty amazing.